‘From Idea to Success’ — Entrepreneur Addiction #40 with Gregg Fairbrothers
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In 2010, Fortune Magazine ran a story about how Gregg Fairbrothers teaches Dartmouth students to be entrepreneurs. Soon after, he was contacted to write a book on that same process, which has led to some of the most popular classes in campus. Last fall, “From Idea to Success: The Dartmouth Entrepreneurial Network Guide for Startups” was published.
Dartmouth College has spawned startups that have gone global. Some of those include the first world petroleum industry, tech breakthroughs like artificial intelligence and BASIC computer language, as well as popular products like Nerf football and Cranium, the board game.
The approach in the book covers three areas: Focusing and forming the idea, business planning and best practices, and managing your company. In this interview, he takes us on a step-by-step approach that shows how you can take your idea — any idea — and bring it to fruition.
About the Guest
Gregg Fairbrothers is an adjunct professor at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business, founding director of the Dartmouth Entrepreneurial Network, and founding chair of the Dartmouth Regional Technology Center.
He has managed and founded oil exploration and production companies on three continents, and is the author of the book “From Idea to Success: The Dartmouth Entrepreneurial Network Guide for Startups”
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- Gregg Fairbrothers, author of ‘From Idea to Success”
- The Dartmouth Entrepreneurial Network
- The Entrepreneur will save us?
- Why the entrepreneur spirit is found more in the U.S. than anywhere in the world
- The framework of forming an idea
- Why are you doing this?
- The difference between those who succeed with the idea, and those that fail
- What’s the market?
- How have you validated the market?
- Where the best ideas come from
- Entrepreneurs recognize an opportunity, not come up with the big idea
- What will kill this idea?
- Doing it early and often
- No substitute for talking to a customer
- Spend minimum you can to find out, then harvest
- Building your idea
- Why you still need a business plan
- Single most important driver of success
- Why investors choose on the basis of the team
- Capability, motivation and character
- How and when to go after employees
- The employee checklist
- Everything is negotiable
- You never have to take the first offer
- Correcting the course
- Am I getting the best out of my current business?
- The line between pivoting and staying the course
- The very skill sets that launched the business are often fatal to operating the business
- You can only get second things by putting first things first
- In the end, it’s all about execution
- Most people don’t even want to steal your idea
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If you can’t listen, here’s the transcription:
Cool Voice Guy: Fueling your business success, this is the entrepreneur addiction podcast, breaking the small business loan news you need if you obsess about your company. Heard exclusively on Lendio.com. And now here are your hosts: Brock Blake, Dan Bischoff and Patrick Wiscombe.
Patrick Wiscombe: This podcast is sponsored by Lendio.com, the online source you need to find the right business financing to grow your company. So check them out: Lendio.com, to get your business growing right now. It’s the entrepreneur addiction podcast episode number twenty-one. My name is Patrick Wiscombe. Thank you, as always, for tuning us in and taking us along wherever and however you’re accessing the podcast. And based on the last numbers, Dan, there’s a lot of people listening to this podcast.
Patrick Wiscombe: It’s the entrepreneur addiction podcast. My name is Patrick Wiscombe. Thanks always for tuning us in and taking us along wherever and however you’re accessing the podcast. Coming up on today edition of the show, we are talking to a gentleman by the name Gregg Fairbrothers about his book, From Ideas to Success, but before we do that, let me bring in Dan Bischoff, the director of communications at lendio.com. Good morning sir.
Dan Bischoff: Good morning.
Patrick: It is a beautiful morning. On Monday, we went from 98 degrees and it’s what, 62 outside?
Patrick: Unrelated to this podcast, can I just say how terrific the NBA playoffs have been and Gregg, I am assuming you’re a basketball player. We didn’t talk about this before we started recording. Are you a basketball fan?
Gregg Fairbrothers: I once was a basketball fan but, to be honest with you, the last time I watched basketball was I think Bill Russell was playing against Will Chamberlain.
Patrick: Nice, wow. Man, you’re going old school on us.
Patrick: The Celtics are doing well.
Gregg: Yeah, so I hear anyway. It’s a little busy in the shop but around these parts you can imagine, the Celtics are the thing.
Patrick: Basketball aside, let’s get into the book. That is the voice of Gregg Fairbrothers. He is the author, as I mentioned just a second ago, From Ideas to Success, the Dartmouth entrepreneur guide for startups. And I guess I should ask why did you write this book and give us a little bit of background on who Gregg Fairbrothers is.
Gregg: I retired from oil and gas industry. I was an upstream guy, drilling type stuff, started some companies internationally for 23 years, retired in 1999 and moved to a farm I bought just out of Hanover, New Hampshire, which is the home of Dartmouth College of course. I had a relationship with the school since I went here off and on and started a program here to just probe the different areas around entrepreneurship, learning, helping people, commercialize technology, helping people innovate, translate things from the lab into the marketplace. Basically, just try to get Dartmouth more serious about that gain and that’s the start of entrepreneurial network. It is a program run by the college. We call it a college. It’s kind of a university structure. So, we work with all the different schools here. We work with alumnus a lot. We help start companies. We do a lot of teaching, a lot of experiential learning. I also teach a number of courses here at both the tuck school and the medical school around this area of entrepreneurship. so, that in a way leads to the genesis of this book and that our course work was featured in, I think it was fortune magazine a couple of years ago and this agent, an enterprising guy down in Boston, Lauren Reiss does a lot of business representation, and he called me and encouraged me to write a book. He thought we ought to write a book around what we do here. We take a fairly different slant on entrepreneurship and he thought there was a book in here. I did not agree with him until I had the time and I’m not a writer. Other than that, it was a great idea. so, he tried two or three times to persuade me and finally, he came back with a different argument and I happened to have somebody in here, a former student, who was taking a year off before med school and was working with me on some other things and she had started some things with me and knew the game a little bit. Lauren said well, I know what you’re doing up there, you meet with all these entrepreneurs and your helping them start their companies and telling them all these things and you have to tell them everything every time and that has to take a lot of time, you know Gregg, if you wrote it all down and put it in a book and got all your sources together so your organized, you can give them that book or tell them to go buy the book and save yourself a lot of time. I turned to Tessa and I said, that makes a lot of sense, if you help me write this book because I don’t have a lot of time and I don’t know how to write, that solves the other two problems, we could do that. So, that’s what we did. Lauren sold it to McGraw Hill on treatment. We got it written fairly quickly because Tessa was starting med school. He was exactly right. I mean, I bought 500 copies of that book when it came out and I’ve given over half of them away already to people who come see me and I figure I’m getting a huge ROI on every purchase of that book because I’m getting all that time back. It’s worked out quite well.
Dan: Before we go onto how entrepreneurs can be successful with some of the principles in your book, you talked a little bit about why or how entrepreneurship can save the country, will save us. How important is it for entrepreneur success in our country right now?
Gregg: Well, actually, that subtitle in that section of the book had a question mark after it.
Gregg: And, you know, I didn’t want to be, we tried to stay away from being provocative and controversial in what we wrote because it’s supposed to be a book that brings people together and gets them in the game but I’m fairly skeptical of the notion that somehow suddenly the entrepreneurs are going to save us and that is in there, I just didn’t really beat it to death. That said, I’m kind of a believer in American acceptionalism, especially to the extent that this is a more entrepreneurial nation, if you think about the adjectives we associate with entrepreneurial. It has been consistently a source of renewal and economic prosperity. We aren’t always growing like we should but we do a pretty good job at it and it’s usually because we create new things and we are willing to let old things die. We go through phases where we may not let them die as often as we should and we may get into too much capitalism. We may be in one of those phases now but, generally, we do a pretty good job at that. I think if you were in that section, you noticed polls in the country tend to find a large number of people, 50 to 80 percent of Americans will say they have an idea and think they could make a business out of it. I don’t think you find that kind of an attitude in any other part of the world that I know of.
Patrick: You know, that’s a great point. I haven’t thought about that.
Gregg: They don’t all do it, obviously, and there are some good reasons why not but still, I mean, in many other parts of the world, I talked to students who come here, the first words out of their mouths are, well that’s not possible at home. You don’t here Americans say that
Patrick: No, you really don’t. Do you?
Gregg: No. I mean, there’s clearly impertinence to business and a lot of places and starting things is hard but American believe it’s possible. If it isn’t happening, I’ve never heard an American say it’s because I can’t do that in America. They will have other reasons like my personal circumstances or I don’t think I know enough. They won’t say somebody is stopping me.
Patrick: That’s a great point. A few minutes ago you mentioned that you wanted to take, I’m using your words, a different slant on the book. What is the different slant?
Gregg: Well, there are a couple of things. First of all, we tried to position this in between popular reading, which tends to be either very anecdotal or very inspirational, on the one hand. On the other hand, you get textbooks; I have a number of them on my shelf. They are heavy. They make good door stops. They have everything in them. they are incredibly useful and nobody will read them because they are so dense and so, we tried to make that kind of content accessible and be a gateway into more resources so there a place somebody could go to understand context, understand what they have to do, why they would do it and where to get started and then where to go to finish out their learning in that particular __ without trying to answer all the questions but being sure we flagged all the major questions. So, it’s really an in between two extremes in entrepreneurial literature. That’s one of the few reasons I was willing to write it is I saw that gap in the literature my students and the people I work with were struggling with. There’s an ocean of information and unfortunately it could become largely inaccessible.
Patrick: You broke the book up into three sections. Part one was the framework. Part two was building your idea and part three was managing the company. Let’s start with part one here. What do you consider the framework to be?
Gregg: The framework is basically context setting. I mean, what happens in almost inevitably when first time entrepreneurs come in my office, they have not really thought through first, why are they doing this. There are already charging ahead because there’s a market. When I ask them why they do it, the most common answer I get is I can think there’s a market. Well, there’s an implication there that they want to do this and they are happy to try because there’s a market but they don’t jump to tell me why they want to do it. And when I make them go back and answer the question, often, they are completely perplexed because they haven’t thought about where’s the personal goal in this, why am I doing this. So, that’s number one in framework.
Patrick: So, they get caught up in the idea not necessarily knowing where they are going.
Gregg: Well, that’s exactly right and it’s implicit. They clearly want to do this but they haven’t thought through clearly enough why and that’s a really important omission because first time things get off track. They are struggling for now, how did I get myself into this? Or worse, the business takes on a life of its own and the next is taking in a completely different direction than what their life goal was when they started this thing.
Patrick: So, what’s the difference, and I realize this is a big question, so what’s the difference between those who have the idea, know which market they are going to go for, and those who just simply fail? So, those who succeed and those who fail.
Gregg: Well, the second big question, it really addresses that point. The first question why am I doing this. The second question is what’s the need or problem or where’s the market and how well have I validated that market is going to be there for me. Often times, these entrepreneurs don’t do that. They create a product. They may infer some kind of a need. Often, it’s a need they personally have and they have not thought through carefully enough why anybody would buy this or, even more importantly, how to verify the market research that people will be buy it and that’s why things fail.
Patrick: So, basically they think because it’s applicable to them, they think it’s a good business idea and applicable to oh hey there’s a market for this.
Gregg: Yeah, or even worse they will think because Facebook is a really popular social network, when I build mine it’s going to be just as successful. The difference becomes market validation.
Dan: I like the part you talked about testing idea with a market. We talked with Ash Moray about running lean and his whole thing was about lean startup ideas and testing the market and then going on with that.
Gregg: It’s very good. It’s become a much more fashionable today than it was 5 or 10 years ago.
Patrick: What’s one of the best business ideas that you have come up with?
Gregg: I’m not sure I’ve ever come up with one. I’ve seen a lot of them but, first of all, I think the best ideas I’ve seen have come from a market, not from an entrepreneur. An entrepreneur’s job, in my opinion, to recognize an opportunity, not come up with a clever idea. what got us on this, if you remember, is why the businesses or why the ideas fail and you just nailed the biggest reasons, which is they end up not meeting the need of the entrepreneur and the entrepreneur just basically just burns out or flakes out and then they have not properly met their product with a validated market need. And from there, if you’re thinking about the broad framework or this front end thinking, the last thing to start thinking about is okay, maybe I do have a validated market, I understand the need, looks like my product should fit into that need. The next big thing is to sit back and do a good risk assessment, what’s going to kill this idea? there’s this, I thinks it’s a mistaken notion that entrepreneurs are somehow people who are genetically impaired and don’t understand risk or have this high risk ___. They are just different from everybody else and, in fact, every time it’s studied, it’s been found that entrepreneurs really don’t have a substantially different risk tolerance than everybody else. What they do have is a different method of dealing with risks, quantifying the risks and appropriately either eliminating them or walking away from an opportunity.
Patrick: Oh, that’s interesting. I haven’t really thought about that. So, it’s not that they are not worried; it’s just that they have the ability to process the information.
Gregg: It’s exactly it. Interestingly, my prior occupation really sensitized me to see that because I was in oil and drilling business and that scene is a very risky business. In my shop, I ran exploration and development for a long time, we had it pretty much down to where it was just about writing about insurance policies. We are actuarial. Any given project was very risky but in the aggregate, they weren’t risky at all because the wins and the losses balanced each other out and if you did your homework right, you came out ahead. In miniature, what an entrepreneur does with any opportunity, he/she intelligently looks at the risks and figure out how to deploy what they put at risk against a potential reward and then execute as best they can.
Dan: Before we move on to part two, building the idea, you mentioned and have mentioned several times about validating the idea that you have. How do you go about validating?
Gregg: Customer validation?
Dan: Yeah, customer validation and do you have any tools that you use consistently to validate the idea?
Gregg: Yes. The first thing to keep in mind is this is not a point in time exercise. This is something that, kind of like telling your wife you love her, you do it early and often. You can never quite do enough. A good sales manager will tell you that it’s very important for salesmen to stay in touch with their customers and be continuing to talk to them about the product, their satisfaction, the problems they have, etc. I still look at that as a form of market validation. First thing is, everybody has, at their disposal, a telephone and they ought to use it. There’s no substitute for talking to a customer. I mean, in person if you can, by phone if not. Nobody can tell you better what they think than the customer with the __ that they don’t even know, a lot of times. They will tell you they would want something and later on you find out they really didn’t. But, it’s certainly better than just guessing. You can do surveys. You can do focus groups. You can do beta, specifically if you’re doing things like web or software, you use a trial group to try to get a first look at what you think people might react. Then you get out and you do trial sales. Really, the only market validation is your sales record.
Patrick: Yeah, so, sales
Gregg: Yeah, which is back to this lean startup, you know, a minimal buyable product. Don’t invest a ton of money building something if you can invest a little bit and first see if the markets going to buy it.
Patrick: Okay, yeah. And we have talked about that. what you don’t know is that we have been talking about that for a number of weeks,, rather than invest, invest, invest and then get it to market and it’s just fails, your saying invest a little bit and make sure there is a market before you just spend a boat load of money.
Dan: So you don’t build something nobody wants.
Gregg: Its expected value against risk investment. It’s exactly what I did in oil and gas. you spend want to spend the minimum you can to find out what you got and then you go put the big money at harvesting it.
Patrick: So, what you’re saying is do your homework first.
Gregg: Yeah, definitely, and not just first but always. You should keep doing it.
Patrick: Let’s move on to part two of your book, which is building your idea. One of the chapters, and I think it was chapter 7 that was talking about building a business plan. now, when I hear business plan, I have to be honest, I just kind of glaze over, and I’m not saying business plans are valuable but have business plans, have they gone the way of they are not as important because you have to be more nimble, or do you still have to have a business plan?
Gregg: You know, the problem is I think that people have used the label business plan to mean two or three different things and are not careful to distinguish them. The written business plan, and there was a time that was a 50 page document complete with appendixes behind it.
Patrick: Yeah, I remember that.
Gregg: And nobody would read them. Maybe somebody would them but today you can write a 10 or 20 page plan and still people would skim them. The plan as a tool for examining a business, I think has been largely supplanted by the presentation and the diligence but, most people will still ask for one. So, it is one of those things where it’s kind of a qualifier. In fact, I have a company right now, it’s just killing me to get the team to write this plan because people are asking for it but I’m not sure that it’s really adding any value for the purpose of that discussion, other than they want to see that it got done. But, there’s also the degree to which the plan is a tool internally to force people to think through what is there business.
Patrick: Okay, now I can buy that.
Gregg: Yeah. So, essentially, it acts as check list. the only template I ever put together for my students, the used to whine we don’t have a template, we don’t know how to write a plan, which baffled me a little bit since if you type business plan into Google, you will get about 700 million hits. And I admit most of them are worthless. So, I sat down and I wrote them a bunch of questions and I said here’s your template, go answer these questions, which, in effect, is the outline of that chapter. It’s a check list, have you thought about these things in your business because these are risks that will kill a business.
Patrick: What were some of your questions that were on that template, before they started?
Gregg: Well, if you remember, a second ago, we talked about probably some of the most key ones. In fact, I think they are probably the ones that more than anything make or break a company, which is what’s the need, who is the customer, what will the customer pay, how many of them are there? You start doing the math on that and pretty soon you have your market. You want to know how you validated it. Then you start talking about what’s the product. How does the product tie to that need? What’s the cost of this product? Did the math work for you? You don’t necessarily need to get into technical yet. Then you have to say how am I going to execute on this? Who is the competition? What are the alternatives? What are the barriers to entry? How am I going to preserve some kind of competitive advantage? Who is the team? Why are they qualified? Where are the holes? What are the financials? Financials are always fiction, but what are the assumptions behind your financials? How does this work? Show me how this turns into a business, which is a narrative. What kind of money do you need and what are you going to use it for? Stuff like that.
Dan: All this stuff is going to great if you’re looking for business financing too, whether it’s a loan or getting some investments to put the same stuff together as a little cabby out here. So, it’s good stuff.
Gregg: You got to have it if you’re going to talk to an investor.
Patrick: Yeah, okay. We are talking with Gregg Fairbrothers, the author of From Ideas to Success, the Dartmouth entrepreneurial network guide for startups. As we continue this conversation, and I know we need to start rapping up here because you need to head out the door, I wanted to talk about employees.
Gregg: Yeah, I was just going to take you back to the beginning. First of all, we are talking about the team, which is the collection of people. It’s important for entrepreneurs to always remember the single most important drive of success in a business is the team. We say it and we say it and we say it. Everybody says yeah, I know. They go on about it, thinking about all the other things except the team because it’s just their buddies and they already have a team. They invariably come back in, and whether they have been successful or not, one of the first things they will tell me is, you know, I think we finally see why you beat that to death. Investors choose on the basis of the team and they do for a good reason because the team is the single biggest driver of success in a company. To begin with the founding team is much more important than people give credit for and people need to look around the table and say do we look like the nucleus of a team that can be equal to this opportunity? Are we going to make a success of it? And that’s both their capability and their motivation and their character all count. It’s a product of the three, which means your multiplying them and anything times zero is zero. You zero out any one of those categories and the company is going to fail. Capability, motivation, and character. To some extent that’s now the same thing one level ousted employees. We used to say at Samson, intelligence times motivation times setting priorities for employees, same basing math. Anything times zero is zero. if there’s on thing an entrepreneur can never think enough about is looking around the table at the team and being sure that a, they got the best they can get and are we working together, is there good cooperation and communication going on in this room every day. Now, the last part of the question you asked was employees, how do you decide, how do you go about it. Really, circumstances should determine when you go after employees. And circumstances are a combination of the need in your resources. I mean, often you have the need, you just don’t have the resources. But, I’ve seen the reverse happen where you have the resources but you really didn’t have the need and people start adding a bunch of bodies and you wonder why
Patrick: Yeah, totally.
Gregg: It really should be both keys to unlock the door. Yes, we have a need. It’s a full time need. We need a person. We have characterized what it is. I used to insist when adding a person that two documents get created. One is what’s this position going to do and why are we hiring it. The other is a description of the ideal candidate, which you never show a candidate because then they say yeah that’s me. But, it’s kind of like your checklist that you’re comparing candidates against. You know, what are you giving up? How do you get them? The best way is always through somebody you know. You know, personal referral, a good referral. The second best is people that walk in the door and are really interested in your company. Going downhill from there then its people responding to want ads and co-calls.
Patrick: Alright. So, there is a hierarchy is what you’re saying.
Gregg: Yeah. I mean, the ones that are referred in by other people, if they are the right referrals, and the ones that walk in the door because they are just really interested in your company and try to find a position, those generally end up being the best people.
Patrick: Very cool. Alright, let’s move on to the last section of the book as we begin to wrap up this week’s edition of the entrepreneur addiction podcast. Part three in your book is managing the company. Chapter 15 talks about everything is negotiable, what do you mean by that?
Gregg: I stole that, basically, out of any number negotiating books. Basically, everything in life is negotiable, whether it’s the terms of an agreement, where we are going to lunch, who are we going to hang out with? A good negotiator, it’s got to be reflexive that any time somebody asks you for concession, you get something back when you make it. It seems like common sense once you think about it but it’s amazing how people don’t do that. But, the things we talked about in there, this is one of those, there’s a parallel universe going on every day and so many people are just not aware that it exists. That people are negotiating you and they are not just giving you the best offer. You don’t have to take the first offer. People are fishing you for information before they structure what they want to do with you to transact. People should be taking this whole thing very seriously that information is really important day to day in transacting with people and there’s this game of getting the most information.
Patrick: I also wanted to ask you one more thing about correcting the course. How often should a company take inventory? Is this a daily thing, a weekly thing, an hourly thing to make sure you’re on the right course?
Gregg: I see it as a judgment call. When things are going really well, I was always a gross guy in my companies and I’d get nervous when things were going too well because I’m always look for the growth opportunity, the next thing. There’s also something that he said for prudence when something isn’t broke, don’t fix it. So, in a given day, I don’t think there’s a right answer. I think the right answer is always be looking at your business. Always be thinking about where is there opportunity. That’s what a good entrepreneur does. But, always be thinking about am I getting the best out of my current business. Sometimes it means just manage it well and keep things running smoothly.
Patrick: Well, I would argue that sometimes that entrepreneurs, and tell me if you agree with this, that you get so busy doing the day to day that the rudder of your company is no one is at the wheel steering the company anymore. They are just so busy with the day to day that they don’t know where they are going.
Gregg: Yeah. Any experienced manager can easily get overwhelmed with the tyranny of the urgent with just trying to keep things running. But, often in an entrepreneurially launched company, the reverse problem happens, which are the very skill sets that made it possible to do something new and creative and launch a business are fatal to the business when it comes time to operate it decently and they won’t let go. They won’t bring in structure and management and the next thing, they are killing the very opportunity to create it. So, there’s this balance our there a lot of entrepreneurs have the sense to know when it’s time to bring in professional managers who can’t do this former skill and move on to find new opportunities. You know, it’s an interesting question. It’s hard to say just one thing but if I was going to say one thing.
Patrick: You can say two if you want
Gregg: Well, there are two things that my students often repeat. One is it’s not about the idea, it’s about the execution, execution creates values, ideas don’t. Ideas are great. You need ideas but the value is in the execution. but, the thing that I find my students actually repeat most, and often I hear them tell me they have given somebody else a piece of advice. It goes back to an essay that I actually mention in the book and the essence of it was, you can’t get second things by putting them first, you can only get second things by putting first things first. That means in a given day, you got to decide what the first thing is and if you don’t get that right, nothing else matters.
Patrick: That’s a great point. I haven’t thought about it that way.
Gregg: Yeah, that’s right back to the first thing of why am I doing this in life, that’s kind of a first thing. I mean business success is a second thing. You can’t get it if you haven’t put the first thing first, which is why am I doing this? And you can take that at every level. If you and I sat down this afternoon and said let’s have a good conversation, all afternoon we will be saying are we having a good conversation? but if we sat down and said hey I want to get to know you guys and I would for you to get to know me a little bit more and lets just kind of hang out, we are probably going to have a great conversation and finish up with hey that was a lot of fun.
Patrick: That’s a great point. I think the first part of this conversation, those things, if you get those down right then you will have much more success. I think that’s some great points you had today. And the other thing, just quickly as we wrap up here, is the one word I heard you say that I have thought about over and over and over about entrepreneurs, in addition to everything we have talked about today, is execution. The different between those who do and don’t. We were talking to another author, I forgot his name, and we were talking to him last week.
Gregg: Steven Key?
Patrick: Yeah. He was giving away basically all of his trade secrets about how he conducts business. He goes I don’t care because I know most people won’t do it. So, execution is the key.
Gregg: That’s exactly right. You know, so often people say I can’t talk about my ideas. The fact is, most people wouldn’t even want to steal their idea, if they really knew what was involved.
Patrick: Yeah, that’s a great point.
Gregg: The first question they should ask if they have an idea is, how am I going to execute this idea?
Patrick: Gregg Fairbrothers, the author of From Idea to Success, the Dartmouth entrepreneurial network guide for startups. You can pick it up at amazon.com. You can also go to his website Gregg Fairbrothers, that’s two g’s by the way. I had to Google you to find out what your phone number was and I was like oh that’s right its two g’s. So, Gregg Fairbrothers, you can go to his website. You can also order it off his website, which links over to amazon. Gregg Fairbrothers, our guest on this week’s edition of the entrepreneur addiction podcast. Thank you so much.
Gregg: Thank you guys. It was great talk to you.
Patrick: So for Gregg Fairbrother, Dan Bischoff, director of communications at Lendio.com, my name is Patrick Wiscombe. Thank you for listening, we’ll talk to you next week.
Cool Voice Guy: Making business loans simple, this has been the entrepreneur addiction podcast, helping you secure the capital you need, with your host Brock Blake, Dan Bischoff, and Patrick Wiscombe. Heard exclusively at Lendio.com.