11/14/11

Entrepreneur Addiction #12 — The Psychology of Building ‘Clients, Clients and More Clients’

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Entrepreneur Addiction #12 -- The Psychology of Building 'Clients, Clients and More Clients'There is no business that can survive without clients.

Author Larina Kase, Psy.D., the New York Times bestselling author of “The Confident Speaker” and the new book, “Clients, Clients, and More Clients,” sits down with us to talk about the psychology behind building loyal clients and customers for life.

So grab your coffee, soda, protein shake, bowl of cereal, bagel, donuts, or what have you, and come on in.

In this episode, we discuss:

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Fueling your business success, this is the entrepreneur addiction podcast, breaking the small business loan news you need if you obsess about your company. Heard exclusively on Lendio.com. And now here are our your hosts: Brock Blake, Dan Bischoff and Patrick Wiscombe.

Patrick: This podcast is sponsored by Lendio.com, the online source you need to find the right business financing to grow your company. So, check them out: Lendio.com, to get your business growing right now. It’s the entrepreneur addiction podcast episode number twelve. My name is Patrick Wiscombe. Thank you as always for tuning us in and taking us along wherever and however you’re accessing the podcast. And Dan there are multiple ways you can access the podcast. You can access it on Lendio.com

Dan: Yeah, on Lendio there’s a RSS Feed. There’s iTunes and a bunch of different ways you can access it that way.

Patrick: That’s right. I forget that you just made the iTunes feed, didn’t you?

Dan: We were just sucking on your iTunes feed, but now we have our own, so.

Patrick: You can also pick up the podcast on my website at PatrickWiscombe.com, and now available on KNRS.com, which you didn’t know. And also available on ABC4.com. We’re getting quite a podcast network.

Dan: Yeah.

Patrick: Of distribution points. You know what, I’m really excited to talk to Larina Kase who is the author of “The Psychology of Building ‘Clients, Clients, and More Clients’”.

Dan: Can we take a little detour here, though, for a second?

Patrick: Oh yeah, sure.

Dan: Today is the fortieth anniversary of what is widely considered by some to be the best rock song of all time. Stairway to Heaven came out forty years ago today.

Patrick: It did?

Dan: At the time we’re recording this, yeah.

Patrick: Larina, how do you feel about that? Stairway to Heaven?

Larina: I think it’s great. It’s a good song.

Patrick: Are you a Led Zeplin person?

Larina: I haven’t listened to them in a long time. I have in the past, though.

Patrick: Alright, who is your favorite band? I know that were talking about your book but, you know, we’d might as well get to know you as well. Who’s your favorite band, or give us your top five bands.

Larina: Oh, gosh. Well, there the classics. I’d say U2 and Grateful Dead.

Patrick: Really, Grateful Dead?

Larina: Yeah. While we’re speaking about marketing today, one of my colleague wrote a book on marketing lessons from the Grateful Dead…

Dan: And David Meerman Scott probably, huh?

Larina: Yeah.

Dan: I’ve heard him speak about it.

Larina: Yeah, exactly. It’s good stuff. Lots to be learned there.

Dan: That’s a good book.

Larina: Yeah, I can’t think of the other top three at the moment.

Patrick: I just saw U2 back in, when were they here, Dan? Was it March?

Dan: Was it that long ago? The spring?

Patrick: It was. March or April 2011. Have you seen them live?

Larina: The Grateful Dead or U2?

Patrick: Well, both, I guess, but U2 I was talking about.

Larina: Yeah, I’ve seen them both. I’ve seen U2 several times, and one time we actually, my husband and I, got… our tickets were like the lucky ones that got to go all the way up to the very front. And we were like ten feet away from the stage. It was pretty amazing.

Patrick: Which tour was that? Do you remember?

Larina: It was in Philadelphia. Maybe it was like eight years ago.

Patrick: Alright, it’s terrific to have you here. I was opening the book. Man, you have some hefty endorsements. I mean, literally. You open the first page and you’ve got Kevin Hogan. You’ve got Dr. Joe Vitale. Am I saying his name right?

Larin: Yeah. Exactly.

Patrick: You’ve got Mark Levy, Shawn Jennings Edgington…

Dan: Chris Brogan’s on there. David Meerman Scott is on there, too.

Patrick: Tom Beal. You’ve got Angela Nielsen. Sheri McConnell. How did you get to know all these people.

Dan: It’s like half of your book is endorsements.

Larina: (laughter) The first couple of pages. I really believe in being authentic and practicing what you preach. As I’m writing a book on building the relationships that build your business, I need to be able to do that myself. So basically just using the exact strategies that I talk about in the book is what I did myself to initiate contact with the people. The key is really how you meet them, being able to show your credibility and your knowledge, and the big thing is being familiar with them. I feel the same way when people contact me and ask me for an endorsement or to propose a joint venture. I love to know that they know something about me, and maybe didn’t pick me because they saw that my book is on the New York Times Best Sellers List. But really they understand the work and are a fan of it. So the relationship building process really has to begin with your understanding and your interest in the other person.

Patrick: Now the other thing. Right after all of these endorsements from all of these ‘big name’ people, I thought it was pretty touching that you brought up your sister Nicole. Tell us a little bit about her.

Larina: My sister is amazing. She is just wonderful at building relationships. She’s got a lot of character and integrity, and she also, I wrote about in the acknowledgment, she had to deal with me and my little marketing antics when I was a kid. I would try out all of my little business ideas on her. She’d have to spend her allowance to purchase my product. She was also my first customer. (laughter)

Patrick: (laughter) Now with your book, “Clients, Clients, and More Clients”, tell us why you wrote this.

Larina: Well, the main reason I wrote it is, from my experience and that of my clients, I was getting really frustrated by the amount of time that can be spent on marketing, also the amount of money that can be spent on marketing that’s not paying off. And also that marketing for a lot of people and business become really stressful and frustrating, and I believe that it can be the opposite. The principles that I talk about are, for the most part, free. And it’s really understanding the psychology of what works, that you can do the thing that gets the best bang for the buck or the best results. And you can have more time to focus on your business or other parts of your life that are important to you.

Patrick: Do some people spend way too much time on marketing or do they do the wrong things?

Larina: It’s a combination. I think the biggest mistake is that a lot of people dabble. So the say, “Okay, I’m going to do some Twitter here. And I’m going to do an eNews Letter here. And I’m going to do this there.” And they don’t do anything consistently. So maybe they send out an electronic mailing when they need new business, rather than every month at the same time each month or every week on the same day each week. So the results of that is that when people get your email, they see it as interruption or they see it as you kind of wanting their business, rather than you providing ongoing value and really building a trusting relationship. So I really recommend for people to focus on the things that you can commit to doing consistently.

Patrick: In terms of marketing, have you found that there are certain marketing tactics that are more effective than others?

Larina: It all goes back to your audience. Rather than thinking about the tactic, you want to think about what does my audience need, what does my audience value, how can I solve a problem for them, how can I stay in touch with them in a way that provides them with ongoing value rather than ongoing advertising. This is why we need to think of it just as a natural relationship. It needs to be able to go both ways. You want something from them. You want their business and their money. They want something from you too, and they don’t want to feel like they’re being sold to. So this is the idea of ongoing value.

Dan: This sounds a little bit like content marketing a little bit, that’s become more and more popular right now.

Larina: It is. Absolutely. Giving really, really good content, something that provides value rather than something that just feels like an advertisement.

Patrick: In terms of content, how do you know that you’ve hit good content, or that you’re creating good content?

Larina: It’s a great question. And what’s so nice about social media now is that you get immediate feedback. So, when you post a blog post or you sent out an email, people are going to re-Tweet it. They’re going to comment on it. You’re going to be able to see that it has a life of its own. Rather than you just send something and you get no response, you might take that as this isn’t something as valuable to my audience.

Patrick: Let’s start talking about making the right connections. What are the right connections?

Larina: I always think of the right connections, the best connections, as the people who will refer to you. So not just thinking about who are your potential clients or customers, but who are the people who are already in front of your ideal clients or customers and can become centers of influence and refer those people over to your business. So ideally, try to think a little bit bigger than just trying to get in front of my client or customer, but rather, who can I get in front of that has influence over that group of people and are frequently in contact with that group of people.

Patrick: With your business, where did you start, when you started making the right connections?

Larina: When I began my coaching business, I was doing leadership coaching and small business coaching, and so I was in contact with other businesses that were in front of my ideal clients. Often it was accountants, other financial advising firms, attorneys, people who were influential already with those types of clients.

Patrick: How long have you been coaching?

Larina: I started my coaching company right as I was finishing up my doctorate, in 2003.

Patrick: And what kind of clients do you coach and what’s the curriculum?

Larina: I basically have two different pathways for my business. One is on the speaking, so a lot of it is people who are speaking to market themselves or market their business, but some is within their career: Getting more confident. Getting your message across clearly. And your speaking, really getting rid of speaking anxiety. Then the other path is the marketing communication, which we focus on the strategies in the book about building relationships, building strategic referral partners, using social media, using other types of internet marketing.

Patrick: Is coaching becoming a more legitimate profession? Not to say that it wasn’t a legitimate profession, but is there a real need for coaching when it comes to the types of clients that you are looking for?

Larina: Yeah. The reason that coaching has evolved was out of need in the marketplace because consultants were going in, delivering these great services to companies, but then the companies were not following through. It’s just like anything. You hear something and it sounds great, and you get inspired. But when it comes down to the daily implementation, we get sidetracked with everything else going on. So coaching is really great because it does help people to stay focused on what is the big picture, the strategy, the goals, and then what is the daily implementation that needs to happen to make sure you’re actually seeing those goals through.

Patrick: Do you actually go to your clients businesses and take a look? Or is this done purely via the phone, via Skype… How do you consult with them?

Larina: Most of my clients right now aren’t in my geographical area, so most of it is over the phone or Skype. Which, I just kind of began my business a little bit backwards. Rather than starting locally, I started nationally. I don’t know why. It’s just like to make things harder on myself, I think. (laughter) So now I’m getting more into local, and I love being able to go into the businesses. My family, a lot of people in my family are artists, and I have some background in design psychology. So I like to go in also and say, “Okay, can we change up your waiting room, or some of the actual design, to help people feel the way that you want them to feel in your space.” So I love to be able to go into people’s businesses when possible.

Patrick: After you’ve found the client, take us through the first thing you talk to them. I mean, obviously you’re going to get to know them. “Hey, this is Lorina Kase. I do this.” Or you’ve probably already done that at that point. But how do you consult a client assuming that they are looking for more clients. Because I’m going to assume that’s probably they’re number one concern?

Larina: Sure. Absolutely. The big question is first of all is what have you done so far, and what’s working, and what’s not working, what do you like. But a lot of it is really based on your own strengths because if you’re going to be doing your marketing, it needs to be something that you can enjoy and be good at. So we look at your own strengths and then also what is the best way to communicate with your audience. How do they like to be communicated with. And from there we develop a specific strategy and the actions to follow.

Patrick: How do you find clients. Since we’re talking about ‘Clients, Clients, and more Clients.” How do you find your clients?

Larina: My strategy when I began was exactly that. I thought about my strengths, and one of my big strengths is communication and writing. I could just write all day long, and I also love speaking. So those have been my two primary methods, is through my books and through writing articles that I’ve submitted online, and then also through public speaking.

Dan: I think you make a good point there, is find your strength, and hitting on your own strength, too. I mean, you may or may not be good at video. If you’re not good at video, but you’re good at writing, you’re probably not going to connect with that audience that would be on video anyway if you’re not very good at it. Right?

Larina: Absolutely. Video is very, very effective, a lot more effective than writing in a lot of situations. So if you feel like you’re not really, you know, you have a face for radio, or you just not in to video…

Dan: That’s why we’re doing a podcast without a video, right?

Larina: (laughter) For whatever reasons, you can come up with creative ways to use videos. It doesn’t have to be you. But yeah. Certainly think about what you actually enjoy and are good at and will actually do. Because if you’re not actually going to do it, then it doesn’t really matter. Your can have a great plan, but if it’s not going to happen, it really doesn’t make a difference.

Patrick: Now, how do you get things out there. I mean, you shoot a lot of video, and by the way, your website is really nice. It is LorinaKase.com, right?

Larina: Yeah, that’s my primary site.

Patrick: Okay, maybe we should spell that because Kase isn’t c.a.s.e, it’s K.A.S.E.

Larina: Thank you, that’s right.

Patrick: And then Larina, L.A.R.I.N.A

Larina: Yes.

Patrick: Okay, so it’s LarinaKase.com. Are you… I noticed that you have a video right on the home page of your website. What are some of the essential elements that you should have in a video blog post?

Larina: Well, first of all, I’m going to be changing that video. It’s not the best video. People are welcome to look at it. But I do think it’s important to update your site regularly and keep it alive and fresh. But in terms of you video, basically the primary goals is that you’re showing yourself as a person and you’re connecting with your audience because just like in relationship, imagine that you’re sitting down face to face with somebody over coffee, you want to feel that sense of rapport and connection. So think about what works best for you. If you’re someone who’s not comfortable just talking to the camera, maybe you want to set it up as a chat with somebody else or have somebody interview you, or something that feels a little bit more natural. Because talking right at the camera can feel sort of strange at first.

Patrick: Ah, yeah.

Larina: Have you experienced that, too?

Patrick: Well, not so much anymore. But I remember the first I had a camera, this would’ve been several years ago, that I’m like, “This is a little creepy just looking at myself.” And I realized it was just like looking at yourself in the mirror, but I guess it’s just that electronic feedback of seeing yourself consistently. And you move, and you can see all of your mannerisms. It speaks volumes about you.

Larina: It does. It’s a great point. I also like what you said. It does get a lot easier the more you practice. So you can use video feedback to help yourself to recognize what you might want to modify a little bit. If you move around too much, or if you’re too stone-frozen, you can work on modifying those things.

Patrick: I always like the people when they’re on national TV for the first time and they’ve got the deer in the headlights look.

Larina: Yeah. (laughter)

Patrick: It’s like, Ehhhh…. You know, bright eyes. I saw that yesterday, and I was thinking about that for some reason.

Larina: I think that was me when I was on… I was only twenty-eight, I did my first national TV appearance with Jane Pauley, when she had her own show. And you have thirty seconds to answer a question, and it’s so intimidating. There’s these lights flashing, and it’s very, very intimidating. But it definitely gets easier, anything with practice get’s easier.

Patrick: Is that available on uTube?

Larina: I don’t think so. That was a while ago.

Patrick: Yeah, Jane Pauley. That was a while ago.

Larina: Yeah, it was pre all of these things. More recently, I did MTV’s Made, which was a makeover show. I gave a teenager a communication makeover, and that was really fun, and that’s available on MTV.

Patrick: Alright, I’ll have to check that one out. Now explain the whole premise of the show.

Larina: MTV’s Made?

Patrick: Yeah.

Larina: It’s actually a great show for teenagers. Basically, a teenager has a goal of something that they want to change in their life, and Made coaches come and help them. So in this particular show, the girl was, she was a party girl. She came across kind of ditsy and a little air-heady, and she wanted to be taken more seriously, so she joined the engineering club or the robotics club or something like that.

Dan: So, Larina Kase, author, PsyD, MBA, MTV star.

Larina: (Laughter) Yeah, it was really fun. She did make some good improvements. It’s a good show for people with teenagers. It’s a really nice show to watch for teenagers. It’s inspiring.

Patrick: You have a chapter in the book talking about grabbing attention. Are companies failing to grab attention because they don’t do the right things, or they’re not as transparent as they need to be to make themselves more human?

Larina: I think a lot of companies can get stuck on what worked in the past. Maybe that’s not what’s working anymore today. But really the key to grabbing attention is a thing called the ‘law of contrasts’. So being able to show something that’s different, that stands out. Because we’re all inundated with information, and so to be able to stand out either graphically, visually, or through your message or through the way that you’re describing yourself, putting a creative spin on something, that’s what’s really important.

Patrick: So grabbing attention, standing out from the crowd. It’s the typical marketing message that you hear all of the time.

Larina: Yeah. Exactly. Something that will go along with that typical marketing message is proven by research not to be true, one of those is, a lot of copy writers like to focus on size of words. So they’ll have these big banners of words, you know, screaming out at you, and size actually is not as effective as some of these other elements. Visually, one of the things that are most effective is brightness or contrast, so being able to have a background that recedes and a foreground that is brighter is really important. If you’re doing video, it’s really important that you’ve got a really good lighting source, so that you can stand out from the background. All kinds of little things like that.

Patrick: So you’re not a silhouette.

Larina: Yeah, exactly.

Patrick: (laughter) Alright, now if you have to name five things that grab attention… You talked about big bright colors. What’s another thing that grabs attention?

Larina: Always are names, peoples names, grab attention. This is often something taught in traditional sales training, to use your prospects’ name, so it’s something that works, but can also have a downside. Have you ever been talked to by a salesperson and they say, “Patrick”, every other word. And you’re like, “Okay, enough of saying my name!” People kind of overuse that one. The rule of times is a couple of times per conversation. But peoples’ name, we can’t help but focus in on our own name. The same thing is true in writing, so making sure your emails are personalized beginning with somebody’s name is really important. Another really interesting thing in research that came out that grabs attention and actually influences emotion, something that might not work for a lot of businesses, but certainly some people, is the traditional, classic smiley face.

Patrick & Dan simultaneously: The smiley face?

Larina: The smiley face actually grabs attention.

Dan: Really? What about the semicolon, winking smiley face?

Larina: (laughter) I don’t think so. Oh, I don’t know if there was research done between the two, but certainly the classic smiley face.

Dan: What about LOL and stuff like that?

Patrick: Oh, LOL.

Larina: I don’t think so. I think we’re all so used to seeing those.

Patrick: Dan, I can’t believe you asked that.

Dan: What about LOLAOF

Larina: I actually sent out a Tweet once about that: am I too old to use those kinds of terms.

Patrick: (laughter) Yeah, where’s the age line on that one?

Larina: People said it was okay. I don’t know. I feel a little bit strange.

Dan: The smiley face works, though. That’s interesting.

Larina: It does work, yeah.

Patrick: You know, I think…

Larina: I think it just so many times in email it’s impersonal. You can’t tell somebody’s tone, so it really helps to show the tone. There’s also been a lot of cultural research on the smiley face. A smile is universal. It really does impact people across cultures, across all different spheres.

Dan: So would that be on email but also on a Twitter post of something? Do you think?

Larina: Sure. You just don’t want to overuse it, but…

Patrick: (laughter) You know, one of the things I will say that I’m absolutely horrible at, and I don’t know that I should say this out-loud, but I guess people can call me out on this, is names.

Larina: Oh, remembering names?

Patrick: Oh, my goodness. I ran into someone, literally Saturday night, this person goes, “Hey, Patrick! How’s it going?” And I just looked at this girl and said, “Who the heck are you?”

Larina: (laughter) “Who are you?”

Patrick: And it’s embarrassing when you can’t remember somebody. You don’t want to say, “Hey, what’s going on, ‘I can’t remember your name’?”

Larina: Right.

Patrick: How do you remember names? Is there a way to remember names?

Larina: Yeah. In the book there probably a little more than people want to know attention memory, how they work, sort of the neurobiology of it. But basically the idea is that we have to get something into working memory, which is the memory that creates a long term memory. The way to get something into working memory is to connect it to something that you already know. So let’s say for example, the first time you’re meeting this woman, let’s say her name is Mary, and it’s like, “Okay, how do I remember Mary? There’s so many Marys out there.” You want to try to connect it with something, maybe you celebrate Christmas, and maybe you met her in December, so she reminds you of Mary associated with Christmas. You just want to think about some kind of connection, and then you want to rehearse in your mind a couple of times, so that it kind of gets into that long term memory bank.

Patrick: you know what makes this story even worse?

Larina: What’s that?

Patrick: Is as I was picking up pizza for our kids, because Saturday night I just don’t cook, it was like, Little Caesar’s, baby.

Larina: (laughter) Definitely.

Patrick: And I walked in there, and it turned out, she goes, “Hey, Patrick. How’s it going.” I was like, “Who the heck are you?” And I think she could see the question marks in my head because I truly did not recognize her, and she mentioned something about Chad. And I’m like, “Who the heck is Chad?” Then all of a sudden I go, “Oh, it’s my cousin’s wife.”

Larina: Oh, my God!

Patrick: I was so embarrassed. But eventually I recovered, and said, “Hey, alright, Jill, good to see you.”

Larina: Oh, that’s so funny. You actually did know her, but for some reason you were having a mind block.

Patrick: Yeah, I was having a big time senior moment there for a second.

Larina: And I think that’s fine. I mean, the whole idea that we’re talking about is building open relationships. And hopefully it won’t actually be a family member, but with somebody else, I think it’s fine to say, “You know what, I think something’s wrong with me right now, I’m just not placing your name.” And I think that’s totally fine because people get it. They know that’s what you’re thinking even if you don’t say it, so I do think the authentic response is just to say it.

Patrick: Well, I’m glad I didn’t say it. Fortunately, I remembered it. A family member!

Larina: That’s when it would be bad.

Patrick: Okay, alright. Let’s switch gears here. Engaging emotions. So we’ve talked about grabbing attention and five things you can do there. How do you engage emotion?

Larina: So, what you want to think about is what is the emotion that you’re trying to influence your potential client or customer to have. So that really goes back to what problem does your business solve for people, and a lot of times the problem that we think our business will solve is not the real problem. The only way to really find this out is by asking customers. Something that I sometimes do for business owners is to help them figure this out by going and interviewing their past customers or customers or clients, and really listening for what is it that, what’s that emotional pain that that business is solving for them. Once you understand that than you can start to speak to that.

Patrick: So you will actually go interview your clients’ clients?

Larina: Absolutely. Yeah, because it’s something that we have an idea about how we help people, but we are more focused on our process. For example, let’s say that you have a businesses, even not a client-oriented business, even a customer-oriented business. Let’s say have an ice cream store. You might think that what you do in your business is to provide people with good quality ice cream. Sounds good, right?

Patrick: Right.

Larina: But when you go into interview the customers, you might find that one of their main benefits is that they love to go to your store, it gives them sort of a family activity, or teenagers like to go there and have something to do on Friday evenings. And so you might actually change some of your message and even your store due to what the client is saying in terms of the emotional needs that your business fills.

Patrick: Hm.

Dan: It’s kind of like Harley Davidson a little bit, too. People don’t buy a Harley Davdison to buy a nice bike. They buy a Harley Davidson so that they can go park at the gas station, get off their bike, and the old lady kind of cowers because he’s driving a Harley Davidson. They’re buying it for the experience.

Larina: Exactly.

Patrick: You’re buying it for the experience.

Larina: Exactly. And some of the brands that have been successful for so long really do, and the market well, because they really do capitalize on that nostalgia factor. And it’s something maybe we used as kids so we like to use with our kids. So understanding what it is to your customer or client that kind of has that emotional pull is really, really critical.

Patrick: How do you make yourself re-memorable because, speaking from personal experience, you know, when I introduce myself, I always, you know, “I’m Patrick Wiscombe, blah, blah…” But it seems as though my name is quickly forgotten. (laughter)

Larina: If you have a name that’s kind of a more common name that can be the case. So what you want to do is to make sure the way that you describe yourself is not quickly forgotten. So talking about these great podcasts that you do, or something that makes people think, “Oh, wow. That’s really interesting. Let me learn more about that.” And now you’re getting into their working memory. You’re kind of building connections in their mind, and then they’re going to be more likely to remember you.

Patrick: You know, that’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about that.

Dan: Just say, “I’m Patrick Wiscombe co-host of Entrepreneur Addiction Podcast.”

Patrick: There we go.

Larina: There you go.

Patrick: You know what? People seem to gravitate towards audio, or they hear radio, they hear podcast…

Larina: Oh, it’s fascinating. Absolutely. because we all have a fascination with the media. So certainly if you talk about that. “I interview bestselling authors.” People are going to say, “Oh, wow. Let me learn more about that.” And that’s going to be memorable.

Patrick: Speaking of that. We are interviewing Larina Kase. (laughter) Who is the author of Clients, Clients, and More Clients. Where do you pick up your book?

Dan: I’ll never forget you now Patrick?

Patrick: Yeah, I know. Where do you pick up the book, Larina?

Larina: Through my site, LarinaKase.com or on Amazon and major bookstores.

Patrick: Now the book is out. When did it come out?

Larina: It just came out a couple of weeks ago.

Patrick: Congratulations.

Larina: Thank you.

Patrick: I’m assuming you’re going to be on some major press tour, of which this is one of the appearances that obviously you’re making.

Larina: Absolutely. Yes, I love doing interviews.

Patrick: What is your favorite medium to communicate?

Larina: Um, that’s a good question. I like TV. I haven’t done as much of it, but the stuff I’ve done I’ve really enjoyed.

Patrick: Now, to me it would be kind of interesting. How do you get on these big national shows. You know, you’ve talked about MTV. You’ve talked about Jane Pauley, and granted that was a while ago. But my point is, how do you get known? How do you become an expert? So when they’re in the newsroom or they’re in the producer’s planning meeting for one of these shows, how do you get in front of one of them. So they go, “Hey, let call Larina. Let’s call Patrick. Let’s call Dan.”?

Larina: Yeah, so there’s basically two methods. One is, I guess, the more passive method, which is to write a book and have it be out there online, so when everyone everywhere search for that topic, you’re one of the top people to come up. The other one that’s more active is to actually pitch the shows directly, and this is something that all local businesses can do. To be able to get on to your local cable channels or new channels is actually very easy. All you need to do is have a great story or a great idea, something that ties your topic to something’s that hot in the media, something’s that a current event. So basically you can send over a one page pitch with your topic idea and a little bio and some interview questions, and then call to follow up. And you’d be surprised how easy it can be especially to get on, especially to local TV.

Patrick: Actually, it’s not surprising. What people don’t know is how starved local TV and radio are for content.

Larina: I know. Exactly. And they do get a lot of pitches, but they are starved for great content. It goes back to the whole idea of standing out and having something that’s different. Because if we think about, again our goal is to get into the person’s kind of mind that we’re trying to influence and solve a problem for them. The problem that they have, and you guys understand this being in the media yourself’s, is great quality, something that’s different than everyone’s heard before. So, again, you want to make sure that your pitch has something unique to it, something that makes it stand out and is different.

Patrick: Do businesses have to be media savvy these days? Do all businesses have to do that?

Larina: I’m just thinking of like a local, so let’s say for example that you have a franchise dry cleaning business or something like that. Not necessarily. It’s something that depends on you and your message and your audience and how you can best reach them. So I think that media is certainly a great channel, but it’s not a necessary channel if there’s something else that makes more sense.

Dan: There’s a couple of more questions that I kind of want to ask before we kind of wrap up the things in your book. But overall I have a question of… the last part of your book I thought was quite interesting, too. At least the subject, for a lot of people, is that people decide in the opposite way that you think about influencing action. Talk about, I mean, what is the opposite way of what you think? And what does that mean for people?

Larina: So a lot of the new decisions on decision making, which comes out of social psychology and also neuroscience research, is showing that, often we make decisions not based on the rational thought process that we think that we use. For example, let’s take it outside of business for a minute. Let’s imagine that you’re trying to decide on the purchase of a new home. You make your pros and cons list, and you have all of your factors laid out, but ultimately what most influences decisions is the emotion behind it. It’s not necessarily the rational analysis, and there’s research that shows that most people are most happy with their decision if they relied on their intuition or their gut feeling or their emotion, rather than that rational analysis.

Dan: That would probably go back to the buying the experience, type of thing, a little bit.

Larina: Yeah. Exactly. It’s getting the emotional connection.

Dan: Give me maybe three main points of your book and maybe some last advice for business owners, for the serial entrepreneur, and for the pizza shop owner, the guy that owns the mechanic shop.

Larina: If we know that what’s working in marketing these days is building relationships with your customers and your referral sources, there’s basically three steps to building relationships and the way that they’re going to build your business. The first is making those connections. The second is following up. And the third is converting the contact into a client or customer. So what’s really important to recognize is what you’re doing well and also the areas that perhaps you need to work a little bit harder on in building the relationships that build your business, of those three things. So the first question to ask yourself is really kind of an open inventory of, “What am I doing well? Well, I do great in meeting people, in getting business cards and making contacts, but then I don’t do anything to follow up until maybe I send out like a coupon in the mail once a year.” Okay, so maybe the step two, the following up, is something you really need to think about. So is there a way to get a system in place to regularly follow up with your potential clients or customers and provide them something of value, perhaps something beyond a coupon, but something else that can be very useful. And then, perhaps you’re great at steps one and two, but then the third step, the actually influencing of action, is not your forte. You want to say, “Maybe I’m not asking for business. Maybe I’m not saying to someone, ‘Hey, I’d really like to work with you, or would you be interested in coming in for a trial, or a kind of a sample session or a sample of the services or product.’ And getting people to understand the value that way.”

Patrick: Do you see your clients… Do they have a hard time asking for business?

Larina: I think most people have a hard time asking for business.

Patrick: Or even asking for the sale.

Larina: Yeah. Especially services businesses because what you’re selling is yourself. So it can feel very self-serving. You can feel very uncomfortable. Something that, you’d be surprised how freeing it is and how much people actually appreciate you say, “Hey, I’d really like to work with you. Would you be interested in getting started?” Or, “I really think you’d enjoy my pizza product. Can I give you a free slice?” Something like that is very, very simple and can make a big difference.

Patrick: What about if you are in the service business, are there two or three things that you would recommend to clients that they sell themselves how?

Larina: The key to selling yourself in a service business is really you’re selling your credibility and your selling the relationship. So one of the most important things is to be able to show your potential client how you’ve helped clients like them, and a great way is through endorsements. With endorsements that work really well, you want to make sure that the person who giving you the endorsement is similar to the person you are trying to the person you’re trying to sell your services to. If this person is so different, then the endorsement is not going to have a lot of power. So the endorsement really should have similarities to your potential client.

Patrick: Let’s go ahead and wrap it up there, Larina. Thank you so much for you time and getting to know you, and be sure to pick up her book, Clients, Clients, and More Clients. You can go to LarinaKase.com.

Dan: There’s a lot more that we didn’t touch on, too. So definitely check out the book.

Patrick: Yeah, so LarinaKase.com and be sure to pick up her book. You can also pick it up on Amazon. Do you prefer the traffic coming to your site?

Larina: Oh, it doesn’t matter. Whatever’s convenient for people.

Patrick: Okay. LarinaKase.com

Dan: He just wants to sell the book.

Larina: Pick up the book, and if you have any questions, I have a blog: ThePsychologyOfMarketing.com. And if people have questions on the book, I’d be happy to answer them or just questions base off the interview today. I’d be happy to answer.

Patrick: So for Larina Kase, be sure to check out her website: LarinaKase.com. Dan Bischoff who is the director of communications at Lendio.com. When does this podcast come out? Is it next Monday?

Dan: Every Monday.

Patrick: Okay. And then you can obviously pick up on the Lendio.com/blog. You can pick it up on my site: PatrickWiscombe.com. So for Larina, Dan, I’m Patrick. Thanks for listening to today’s addition of the Entrepreneur Addiction Podcast. We’ll talk to you next week.

Voice: Making business loans simple, this has been the entrepreneur addiction podcast, helping you secure the capital you need, with your host Brock Blake, Dan Bischoff, and Patrick Wiscombe. Heard exclusively at Lendio.com

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