Click below to Play. Go here to download on iTunes. Click to download the mp3 Entrepreneur Addiction Episode #5 We are lucky to have Joe Abraham, author of "Entrepreneurial DNA," in today's podcast. Joe is a serial entrepreneur who has either founded or co-founded more than 25 companies. For his book, he has studied thousands of business owners and found what traits lead them to success or failure. The Podcast really gets interesting around the 8-minute mark when Joe highlights various personalities of entrepreneurs. Highlights from today's podcast: Challenges of starting a business at age 23 \tThe brilliance of Google Pain causes change \tAre you born an entrepreneur? \t We're not in the steel and coal business anymore \tWhat is Entrepreneurial DNA? Are people born entrepreneurs? \t Builder DNA \tOpportunist DNA \tInnovator DNA \tSpecialist DNA \tHow should each personality seek financing? Click below to Play. Go here to download on iTunes. Click to download the mp3 If you can't listen, here's the text: Cool Voice Guy: Fueling your business success, this is the entrepreneur addiction podcast, breaking the small business loan news you need if you obsess about your company. Heard exclusively on Lendio.com. And now here are our your hosts: Brock Blake, Dan Bischoff and Patrick Wiscombe. Patrick: It's the entrepreneur addiction podcast episode number five. My name is Patrick Wiscombe. Joining me in studio this week, we've got Dan Bischoff, who is the director of communications at Lendio.com. Good morning, sir. Dan: Good morning. Traffic was much better today than it has been the last couple of times. Patrick: Yes, it has been better. Now, Joe Abraham is from Chicago, but he's actually coming to us live from California. I understand that you've got a family event going on down there? Joe: Yep, it's exciting times for sure. Patrick: That is the voice of Joe Abraham, the author of “Entrepreneurial DNA”. He's our special guest this week for the entrepreneur podcast, and I'm absolutely thrilled to have you here. Joe: Thanks for having me. I'm excited for the time we're going to have together. Patrick: Alright. So, let's do a couple things here: Number one, let's let people get to know you and your book “Entrepreneurial DNA.” As I was prepping for the podcast: you started your first business when you were 23. What kind of a business was it? Joe: It was a distribution company. Well, it turned out to become a distribution company. But like any twenty-three year old's business, it was more like, “Let's just go out and make a ton of money.” Basically we found business owners or inventor-types who had a great product, but had no idea how to sell or market it. And we were just these young, energetic, you know :We'll break down doors” type of people, thinking, “Hey, when we found some great products, we'll go out and figure out in on the shelves and in the stores and to the consumer, and pick up our piece of the pie in the middle.” So, we were basically what today would be called a manufacture's rep, but we were much smaller, small business-type level. Patrick: Okay. Now that you're a little bit older, and you're not twenty-three anymore, do you ever look back on that experience and, what valuable lessons did you learn that were just absolutely back-breaking or tremendously successful? Joe: We got over the fear of rejection pretty fast. It was baptisms by fire, so to speak, on having the door slammed on your face, and not having the right words to say, and competing against sales professionals who had been trained by IBM and who were calling on these same people from our competitors. And it didn't take very long to say, “We were terrible about everything we do. We've got a lot of energy, but we're not professional. We don't have the right look and feel.” I mean, we were in college clothes, you know. But just that entrepreneur desire, there was just this desire to say, “But we're still going to keep going,” is what pushed us passed those first six to eighteen months where we were just a walking nightmare. So, that was probably the biggest lesson learned: There was times where we wanted to quit. I mean, my second day in business I was saying “This is ridiculous. We’re never going to make any money here. For get this.” I will argue that you can't be an entrepreneur for the long term without having those bad days and figuring out ways to get through it. Patrick: What's the difference between those who just think about and those those who do? Or, maybe that's it? Joe: I think the easy word is “action”, right? The two sentence answer to that is a statement I heard a while go: “We change when the pain to change is less than the pain to stay the same.” And I think when you look at any great entrepreneurial story, something was going on in their life, and they said: “I've got to do something different, or I've got to run after this idea.” And, all the fear and all the frustration and all the reasons you shouldn't do it, suddenly weigh less than the reasons you should do it and need to do it and have to do it. That's when entrepreneurship is born. Patrick: Who's the person that you look to as your business hero? Joe: You know, quite a few, and it's changed over time, you know. And I'll tell you why, before I give you a couple of names that pop in my head right away. Humans beings over time always tend to disappoint, you know. It doesn't matter whether it's your favorite presidential candidate, or politician, or rock star. Inevitably they're going to go and do something stupid, and you think, “Oh my! Why did I think this person walked on water?” You know? So, looking back on my career, there were times when I thought that the Donald Trumps were the great ones, and then you see what happens in his personal life, and you're like, “Ugh”, and you think he's not my favorite so much. Right now the people that I'm following are a lot of the up and coming young tech-stars, the founders of groupon of founder of grubhub. Just individuals that are just so innovative in the business models their creating and the impact they're having so fast on the market place. I'm just fascinated to follow them and just see what they're doing. And I hoping five years from now I don't find out about all their skeletons in their closet. (Laughter) (Google talk) 8:13 Patrick: Let's switch over to your book: “Entrepreneurial DNA”, available where? I'm assuming it's on Amazon and few other places? Joe: Yeah, Amazon, Barnes & Noble... They say all the bookstores, but you know, bookstores are kind of ramping-down what inventory they carry in the story. So online, I think, is the best places to find it: Barnes&Noble.com, Amazon.com, CEOReads, most of those online retailers have it ready to ship same day. Patrick: You're an Apple guy, only because you said it. And I'm assuming that you have an iPad or an iPhone? Joe: Yes, sir. Patrick: And I'm going to ask you: Do you think the future of books is electronic instead of hardcover and paperback? Joe: Yeah, I believe so, in the sense that, I think publishers will always be forced to have paper because there's some old-school people. Even I, when I'm actually reading a book I actually prefer reading it on paper because there's always a note you want to make: “Oh this author's an idiot! Oh, a good point!” You want to highlight. Our generation especially. I think, by the time the millenniums own the world, we may not see paper ever. But I think our generation will carry around paper for a little bit longer. Dan: Let's talk about the title of the book: “Entrepreneurial DNA”. Where did that come from? How did that come about? Joe: Yeah, good question. Originally, you know, you come up with a hundred different titles, and the publisher tells you you're nuts until you come up with one that they think is good. But I really like this one, at the end of the day, looking back. Because I was a bio major in college, believe it or not. I was supposed to follow in my family's footsteps and be a doctor, and I was the furthest thing from that. But in my little bio classes and chemistry classes, the little I learned about DNA, it kind of applies here. Because what I learned about entrepreneurs, and we'll talk about this a little bit more, is that we're wired differently, all of us. Very much like if you and I went and took a blood test at our doctor, the doctor could probably tell us based on some family history and blood test results, “Hey, you're predisposed for cancer, or you're predisposed to be over weight, or you're predisposed for disabilities. That's what your blood work show. That's what your test results shows.” Now that doesn't mean that you're going to get diabetes tomorrow. There's things that you can do to tweak it, and there's always exceptions to the rule. But you're predisposed. And that's really what this book and the assessment we have and all that's designed to do, is to say, “What are you predisposed for? What are you heading down a certain the path for?” There's always a little bit of adjustment here and there. So, that's why DNA seems like the appropriate term, now. Patrick: Can people learn to be entrepreneurs? Is it skill? Or is it a combination of skill and DNA? Joe: So, I come from the school of thought that says, “There's an entrepreneur in everyone.” Some of us use it to start businesses, some of us use it to climb the corporate ladder, some of us use it to home school our kids. The dictionary definition of entrepreneur is pretty broad, and it basically says, “Anyone who steps out to take a risk to do something different and shoulder the risk of having done that.” But to own and operate a business, I think it just takes that “ideation”. You know, when that light-bulb goes off, to say, “I know I'm going to step out and start my own company, or I’ve got this idea for a product.” It takes that. Without that, there's really no entrepreneurship as from a business owner perspective, and then like what you and I were talking about a little bit earlier today, the action to move forward on that idiation, so it doesn't just stay an idea. I think when you put those two together, you've got an entrepreneur. And really what happens after that is a series of mistakes and stubbed toes and victories, you know, that create the journey. Patrick: With regards to action, do you see that as a major differentiation between those who do and those who don't? Joe: No question about it. It is the single defining difference between the person staring out the window of their home office going, “Maybe some day,” or driving in their car thinking, “I shouldn't be working here,” and the person who actually does it. It's the biggest chasm, it's the biggest jump the person has to take is that initial action step to get going. Patrick: And that's probably the hardest one, I'd say. Joe: It is the hardest one, but once you break that initial inertia, it gets easier. It's like you're rolling down hill from there. Dan: In your book, Joe, tell me if I'm right, you talk about four different types of different types of DNA for entrepreneurs. The first one is a Builder DNA, that you talk about, and you mention Donald Trump in the book, too, as being one of those Builder DNA types. But talk about the Builder DNA a little bit and who that is and what kind of entrepreneur that is. Joe: Yeah, so this came out of studying thousands of entrepreneurs. And there's just a pack of them. They make up just a small part of the entrepreneur ecosystem by the way. This group that were about to talk about only makes up about 15% or so of entrepreneurs. They have this set of traits about them, and they're typically serial entrepreneurs. They're the type who can walk in to almost any business situation, whether it's a start-up or a turnaround or an existing business, tweak a few things and scale it up for massive growth. Patrick: You know who did that pretty well here, and speaking about the 2002 Winter Olympics, Mitt Romney. Joe: Yes. Patrick: The Olympics here in Salt Lake, I don't know if you followed the story, but they were a disaster. But he turned them around, and according to all the accounts that I've read, the best Olympics ever, winter Olympics that is. Joe: Yeah, and Romney, you could say, has that Builder DNA. They just seem to have the golden threads of a business. How do you step in and look at a situation from such a big picture, whether it's a start-up or an existing massive infrastructure, like the Olympics, and it's almost like they can do it in their sleep. They can scale up business to zero, two million, five million, twenty million, a hundred million, and it's almost like they're on cruise control. Yet you look at other entrepreneurs who will see that and go, “Man, I did everything. I beat my head against the wall. I tried. I went to MBA school. I did all the things I was supposed to do. I followed all the blueprints. And I couldn't break a million bucks a year in business, or I couldn't even stay in business.” There's this group of entrepreneurs who are wired to design systems for highly scalable growth, and that's this Builder DNA. And with that comes a set of strengths, a set of weaknesses, and a set of tendencies that I kind of warn them about based on having studied people like them. Patrick: What about weaknesses. Under the Builder DNA, if you had to pinpoint one to five... Dan: Donald Trump's weakness maybe? Patrick: Well, okay, his is moral. He likes the woman, so... Joe: Well, interestingly enough, you're heading in the right direction, though, on what plaques Builder DNA entrepreneurs. The number one thing when you look at their business, the consistent pattern, is human capital. Human resources is their big issue. People is another way to say it. When you look at their history, and typically they leave a wake of dead bodies. Patrick: Oh, really? Joe: Employees, key managers, spouses, children, because they tend to be somewhat obsessive in nature, and business is really what they define themselves with. You know, “How much infrastructre do I have. How many of employees. What's the size of payroll. And what's the depth of our brand.” They don't really measure themselves with personal income. So, that insatiable desire to produce and create and generate and own and control causes them to be somewhat tyrannical in a business environment. Kind of a Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type personality style sometimes. And that usually leads to a very fast revolving door of talent. Their best people will leave and start their own businesses because they don't feel appreciated or they feel controlled and used there. That's the number one weakness. And as you can imagine, that's a big deal because if these people have the talent to build these highly scales business but out the door goes all the good talent, they're taking two steps forward and three steps back just like anybody else. Patrick: Okay, is Steve Jobs the Builder DNA? Joe: No, Steve Jobs will be kind of the opposite of that behaviorally, and we'll talk about that group, the Innovator DNA. Patrick: Okay, well, let's move on to the next one. Dan: Do you want to go to Innovator? Joe: Yeah, let's do that Innovator. They're the opposite of the of the Builder. Patrick: Okay. Joe: So, the Innovator DNA are the mad scientists of our world. They are the tinkerers, they're the creators, they're the ones who on the small business setting are the gal who tinkers with grandma's cookies recipe, and wham-o comes up with these cookies that people are banging down the door to get. Next thing you know the local store wants it, and six months later Wal Mart wants it. And they're sitting there saying, “I didn't want to do this. I didn't want to be a business owner. I didn't want to make a lot of money. I didn't want to do legal and accounting and business development. I just wanted to make good cookies.” Patrick: You know, I really dislike those kinds of people. You know, you go out and beat your, “Oh, I just want to succeed, dang it!” And then they can't do anything. And then some person goes, “I just want to make a dozen cookies,” and turns into be a billion dollar business. Joe: You're right, and they're so many of these entrepreneurs. And by the way, we found that they own most of the intellectual property of our day. So, these are the people tinkering in their garage with green technology and building more efficient engines out of nothing. And Steve Jobs, in this case, is just wired this way. They're more worried about changing the world with their innovation than they necessarily are about money and all that kind of stuff. They just want to change the world. So, they tend to have problem with business management. Because they're so excited about wearing a lab coat and being in the lab of their business researching. They're the mad scientist type. There's not enough time or talent to also be the business Builder, scaler, grower person. Patrick: I heard Steve Jobs say one time, “We make products for ourselves. If you like it, fine. If you don't, I don't care.” Joe: Exactly, and when you see his insatiable desire to build the best quality stuff, and the look and the feel, even down to the packaging of what you and I get when we buy that product, that's Innovator DNA at work. Patrick: What would you classify Bill Gates as? Is he a Builder? Joe: No, great question. He behaviorally is a what we call Specialist DNA, which by the way makes up the majority of entrepreneurs in the marketplaces. As thousands of entrepreneurs have been through this assessment process that we have, we're finding out that about 45-50% of all entrepreneurs fall into this Specialist category. These are entrepreneurs who after years and year of schooling or apprenticeship or on the job training develop and expertise, a skill. And then they bring that to market. So, think of lawyers, accountants, dentists, graphic designers, IT people, Bill Gates, who will start in an industry and just go deeper and deeper stay in that industry for five, ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty years, and really become the experts of their trade. They're really, really good at what they do, fairly risk adverse, relative to some of the other groups that we know about. And again, they tend to stay in that industry for a long time. Their big frustration, their big weakness, comes in the area of marketing, business development. It's very hard for this group to stand out in a crowded marketplace. Dan: What if they are a marketer, and they own a marketing company? Would that still be a Specialist? Joe: Yes, typically marketers who own marketing companies who end up with SDNA are basically regurgitating somebody else's marketing stuff. They've read some Innovators stuff, and now they're basically putting their spin on in it bringing it to market. They'll still struggle, believe it or not. Most marketing companies struggle for customers. It's amazing, but it is what it is. Patrick: Alright, what's the other DNA type. I don't have the book here in front of me. Dan: It's the Opportunist. Joe: Yes, it's the opposite of the S. So, if you think of a Bill Gates or a typical dentist/doctor who is one business, stayed with it forever, you know, build it up, just earn a great personal income for the next twenty, thirty, forty years and retire. The opposite of them is what we call Opportunist DNA. These are your friends, and there's a little bit of this in all of us. Patrick: Was that you? You know, the twenty-three year old who said, “I want money.” Joe: Yeah, I think a lot of us have a little bit of the Opportunist in us. But when you're off the chart Opportunist DNA, these are your friends who one day were in multilevel marketing. Then they were in another deal. Then they were flipping real estate. Then they were trading stocks on line, you know, day trading stuff. And now they're doing the “gold” thing. They're wired for the ground floor opportunity, to sniff out the next ground floor opportunity, to be at the right place at the right time, and ride that wave of growth all the way to the top. They don't want to work too hard, although they're willing to work very hard for a short window of time. Pull the plug. And then sit back and sip a “my tie” on the beach for the rest of their life. That's Opportunist DNA. Dan: There we go, all four. Patrick: Alright, so, Builder DNA. We've got Opportunist DNA. Dan: Builder, Opportunist, Specialist, and Innovator. Joe: That's B.O.S.I., which is BOSI. Patrick: Ah, so that's it! I was wondering where BOSI came from. Joe: Listen, you’re not the only one who has had that “ah-ha” moment right about now. Everyone goes, “BOSI, what a stupid name for a company.” You say, “Well, it's actually an acronym.” Then they go, “Oh! Okay!” Patrick: The other thing, I was like, “BOSI, it sound like BOSE. I wonder if he likes speakers.” Something along those lines. (Laughter). Dan: So, the book, though, you talk about the weaknesses in the book, or for each DNA type. And so, the book is, and so is your website too, but the book is to help the Innovator know how to find their weaknesses and hire the right people to support their weakness. That type of thing, right? Joe: Yeah, so basically what happens is, in the early part of the book you kind of go through this discovery process of what kind of entrepreneur are you. Then the second part and third part of the book are separated into four parts. So, based on your test results which, you know, you take the assessment free, then you go to your section of the book. And then there's best practices for your DNA. Because that was my big breakthrough. The big breakthrough for me wasn't that we're different. We all know that. The big breakthrough while I was studying all these entrepreneurs was based on your DNA there are best practices that work for you. And if you dare follow the best practice of someone who isn't your DNA, you're in for a very frustrating journey. That was what my big ah-ha moment was. The reason people are frustrated or are failing at entrepreneurship today, in many cases, is they're following somebody else's game plan, that really behaviorally isn't built for them. So, the majority of the book is laying out the plan that is going to work best for you based on your DNA. Patrick: Do you have people approach you all the time saying, “Joe, what am I doing wrong?” Joe: Yeah, and you know, when I discovered entrepreneurial DNA that's really what was happening. I had just sold one of my companies. I was bored. And I had no idea what I was going to do. And the phone started to ring with people saying, “Hey, I've got this idea for a business. Can you help me?” Or, “I'm struggling with my business. Can you help me?” And that turned into this boutique, start-up incubator or business accelerator that I was running, and I thought I was going to run for the rest of my life. So, yeah, that's a very natural part of being who I am, is people tapping me on the shoulder and saying, “Hey, so, uh, I've got this idea.” You know, and it goes from there. Dan: What's all the research you did behind the book to come up with these four? Joe: Yeah, so we went through thousands entrepreneurs, visiting with them, either kind of online survey stuff, but a lot of face to face stuff, interviews, surveys, questionnaires. We really focused on their behaviors. “How are you wired? What things energized you in business? And what things drive you nuts? Where do you spend your time? Why are you in business? What was your reason for going into business? And how do you measure success?” Just kind of understanding their behavior. But while we were there talking to them about that stuff, we got a chance to look under the hood into their business. “Okay, well, what's you're marketing plan? What kind of business are you running? And how did you raise your money? And who is in you, how did you pick your staff?” You see, while we were talking to them behaviorally, we were looking under the hood of their business, and that's when the dots connected between: this behavioral group, here's what worked for them; this behavioral group, here's what worked for them. Patrick: Do you have to get funding for what you do? Joe: Um, there's two side to us, so, yeah. The technology platform we've built did need funding, and we went out and between self-funding it ourselves, me and my business partners, and then raising it around to capital. Yeah, we're actively out raising capital. We just raised a round of money, and we'll do a pretty significant round early next year. Patrick: You know, I've always wanted to be involved in a round of financing. (Laughter) Joe: It's a stressful blast. Let me put it that way. Patrick: A stressful blast. Dan: Yeah, Brock Black, our CEO, he wrote a blog post about. We just got six million dollars funding. Angels and VC money. And it was a year of a lot of stress, a lot of rejection, a lot of stress. And you know, it was full time work to get that funding. Joe: Yeah, and you're totally exposed. As the entrepreneur, as the Brock, right, I mean, it's almost like you're standing there naked in front of everybody. Patrick: That can't be comfortable. Joe: No. It's not. (Laughter) But the sheer joy of when they say, “They paperwork is signed. The transfer should happen tomorrow morning.” And you log into the bank account, and you see those zeros. Nothing quiet like it. Patrick: I haven't experienced that only because I haven't been through a round of funding. I've always been, kind of, “I'll fund it myself.” One of those guys. Joe: Yeah, absolutely. And most businesses should be funded self or maybe some friends and family. Or in some cases, you've got the Lendio type systems that can avoid all that pain that some of us go through when we need to raise large sums of money. But for a typical business that can get off the ground with five, ten, twenty K or so. You know, that's why I'm such a big fan of the Lendio product is because it takes care of so much of that beating your brow to figure out who the right person is. You know, “How should I fill out my paperwork.” And this, that, or the other. You know, it's done for you. I mean, I wish this was around ten years ago when we needed, kind of, debt financing. (Laughter) Dan: Yeah, talk a little bit about that, too. I mean, that there's so many different kind of loan products for financing or options for these business owners and these different personality types, too. How does a business owner, you know, from your mind, how do they decide what they need? Do they need VC money? Do they need to get some angel money? Do they need to get a loan? Is a personality thing? Is it just a business situational thing? How do they find out? Joe: Yeah, the easiest one to take off the table is VC/angel money because that's the easiest one to say, “If you can't answer yes to these two questions, don't even bother.” Okay, and here's what the questions are: Do you have a successful track record of having built, grown and sold companies? If the answer is no, your chance of getting VC and angel money are down to like one half of one half of one percent because they are opportunist DNA. They want to plug into a ground floor opportunity and ride a wave of growth without working too hard. So, they're not going to bet on someone who just has a great idea. They're going to bet on someone who is almost guaranteed to give them a return on investment. So, the founder and their management team, if they're not rock stars with a fantastic track record, please don't waste your time with VC and angel funding. It's going to be a frustrating journey. So, everybody else who doesn't fall into that VC/angel funding group, which is like one half of one percent of entrepreneurs, need to go to a more traditional fund raising scenarios. So, it's debt based funding or, you know, convertible loan type funding, whatever it may be. We found that Specialist and Opportunist DNA , which make up a majority of entrepreneurs, 70 to 80% of entrepreneurs fall in this category, are best suited for a Lendio-type product, where they can come and kind of say, “Here's what my situation is.” And then a system like Lendio goes out and already has the relationships with the different banks and the different lending sources, and can almost prioritize and match the entrepreneur to the source. Because, I mean, I was thinking back to five, eight years ago when we used to have to do this alone, and I was doing it with clients, you literally had to sit there and look at different banks websites. And go, “Well, let's look at what their criteria is.” And some banks have pretty websites, and some banks have ugly websites, and some are real, and some are scams, and the entrepreneur doesn't have time to do all that. (Laughter) Dan: Yeah, it's a lot of work. I've gone to the banks to talk with them about getting a business loan, and a lot of those people don't even really know, they don't even know. There's not a business loan specialist on site for a lot of these banks, and it's just a rigamarole, you know? Joe: Yeah, and you know what, guys, and you know this way better than I do, but I'll just tell you experientialy and for all the viewers on this podcast: Listen, banks are not doing what they were doing ten years ago. In other words, you can't walk into a bank and talk to the bank manager, fill out an application, and in forty-eight hours later have an approval, and seven days later have a check. It is taking typical banks... You know, a typical entrepreneur walks into a bank and tries and does this their own way, it's taking ninety, a hundred and twenty days just to hear, “No.” And the whole time you're being strung out, and the whole time you're building your dreams, “Oh, the money's going to come. We're going to have so and so. And let's do this, and let's go price out computers and desks and...” Listen, it's not going to happen! There's relationships that you need today to get bank financing. I've just found it over and over again, and that's one of the reason I think I'm such a big fan of what you guys are doing is, you've already got the relationships. You know who to talk to. Or the person at the bank has contacted Lendio saying, “Please connect us with entrepreneurs.” That's the person the entrepreneur needs to talk to, but unfortunately, walking into the bank, you're not talking to that person. You just aren't. Dan: Before we finish up, though, let's talk about your website, too, bosidna.com, and what you're trying to do with that project? Joe: Yeah, I'm really excited about that. So, here's how it works: you come to the website, you take the free assessment. It's just kind of like a Myers-Briggs test, but it's the Bosi Test, and it's ten questions. It's really fast. You get your results. But really what we're doing with that, it's our trick to basically profile you. You take the test. You get all the value. You get your DNA. But in that process we tag you with what you DNA is. You're either a Builder-Opportunist, or Specialist-Innovator, or an Innovator-Builder, whatever. You'll figure that out when you take the test. But then what we do, then once we've tagged you, we, kind of like Lendio, try and match you with stuff that's really going to blow your mind. Things like other entrepreneurs who have your DNA or are complimentary DNA. So, when you're logged into our system it's say, “Hey, you should meet this guy Joe Abraham.” And it will allow you the opportunity to connect with him on Linkedin or Facebook or whatever social network they've connected. But what we're trying to do is help entrepreneurs build their network of people they may not have even known in their area or in their industry. So, it's a social networking tool. But then we also want to connect them with education and content that's best suited for them. So, we filter all the garbage out there and find the, “Oh, here's a good piece for Innovator-Builder entrepreneurs. Here's a great piece on marketing for Specialist entrepreneurs.” So, we feed that to you on the system. And the third thing is, matching you with providers. Kind of like Lendio matching the entrepreneur with the funding source, we match the entrepreneur with other providers like, “I need a lawyer to help me file a trademark. Or I need an account. Or I need a graphic designer.” We're allowing service providers to create a free profile, and then our match algorithm will match the entrepreneur with the best person for them, the best service provider based on DNA as well as location, blah, blah, blah. Patrick: Hmm. Joe: So, that's our engine. People are calling it the Match.com meets Linkedin for entrepreneurs. And we kind of like that. Dan: Yeah, I like it. We're trying to work a little bit together, too, figuring out a little bit. And hopefully we can some more, so. Patrick: Alright, so the website is bosidna.com to get your free profile. Joe: Yes, absolutely, bosidna.com. Patrick: Okay. As we start to wrap up here, dude, I'm looking over some of your endorsements. On the the front cover, you've got Seth Godin plugging Entrepreneurial DNA. A lot of people just know his name. Brian Tracy, “The Psychology of Selling”. “Duct Tape Marketing”. I'm assuming that you know each and everyone of these people but, man, these are some big names plugging your book. Joe: Well, it's amazing what cash will do. (Laughter) I'm just kidding. No. You know, these are all people who again, these are all big fans of entrepreneurship. Like when I contacted Seth Godin, he didn't know I existed, and he said, “Send me the manuscript.” So, I sent him the manuscript. He read through it, and like forty-eight hours later, he said like, “Joe, this is a game changer. Here's my endorsement.” You know, like, these are real people. I mean. I don't know. I'm just a fan of authentic people who become successful, but still remember little people like us along the way. Patrick: You're as authentic as it gets. Joe: Thank you. Patrick: A lot of people forget where they came from. Joe Abraham. Be sure to pick up his book, Entrepreneurial DNA, “the breakthrough discovery that aligns your business to your unique strengths”, which was the BOSI DNA. Also get your profile. Bosidna.com. And pick up his book. Again, Entrepreneur DNA. Joe Abraham, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. Dan: Yeah, I hope we can talk to you again. Joe: Thanks guys. It's been a blast. Thank you. Patrick: Alright, so we'll go ahead and wrap it up there. So, for Joe Abraham and Dan Bischoff, director of communications at Lendio.com. It's always good to see you, Dan. Dan: It's great to see you. Patrick: My name is Patrick Wiscombe. Be sure to listen to the podcast on Lendio.com. You can also pick up the audio on my website, patrickwiscombe.com. So for Joe, Dan, I'm Patrick, we'll talk to you next week. See ya. Voice: Making business loans simple, this has been the entrepreneur addiction podcast, helping you secure the capital you need, with your host Brock Blake, Dan Bischoff, and Patrick Wiscombe. Heard exclusively at Lendio.com.